Curse

dasmitchies · Jun 10, 2010, 09:59 PM // 21:59

AP is fragile. Most high end monsters have hex removal so AP then needs a cover hex. That means more energy. As for pve only skills, they require a lot of grind to make usefull in HM. Anet worked there ass off to prevent another mass exodus with the latest SF change. Don't expect them to ever change this skill. They have allready stated when they buffed mesmers that they intended to fix paragons and dervishes next. On their timetable, Gw2 will have allready been out and failed. Btw, whichever mod deletes my posts criticizing Anet is a choad.

FoxBat · Jun 10, 2010, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Deleting PvE skills won't happen, but something like "your class skills are recharged" (i.e. not EotN) would be fine. As mentioned AP has been around since factions release, it only became a real problem with EotN skills. This may have to wait till eles can actually deal some kind of damage in HM though.

Idea: 0 or 1/4th cast time, recharges sin skills only, unnerf black lotus strike (not OP anymore with aftercast on shadow prison)

Lishy · Jun 10, 2010, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

Try reading some of the PvE skill descriptions and then tell me they aren't overpowered.

Try looking up the setup for all those level 28 enemies and 2hko elementalists and tell me it is overpowered. It looks like it's equal ground, and considering you can only have 3 at once, they're nothing more than an extra boost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

Pve skills and cons have diluted the game where it takes absolutly no skill or effort to clear an area. You don't need to change your bar to counter specific mobs, you just need more cons. Even in the elite areas, the only "skills" you need is the knowledge where specific mobs pop up and how to ball them. If you don't think that's poor game design, then stop reading my posts.

Really? Because last I checked with all these recent buffs in PvE, areas have been requiring you to switch more and more. Verdant Cascades for example is now more anti-melee filled than ever and c-spacing your way through things will abolish your team. And contrary to your post, elite areas have always been requiring you to change builds. I don't even think it's possible to clear DoA HM and Mallyx with a normal build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

Since when are skill balances supposed to be fun? Originally they were intended to stop different professions to blow through pvp, but I guess now we need to incorporate a "fun factor" into our skill suggestions.

I recall Izzy said that the power shifts were to shaken up the meta of Guild Wars. While they are to prevent a single profession from dominating in PvP, PvE doesn't have a single profession dominating everything, and PvE skills even prevent that because all professions can use them. There are however underpowered professions, but now is a state in the game where that is being looked into. Plus realize that there are just naturally different tiers for skills. Flare will never be better than Fireball, for example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

Vanquishing is a joke with cons, you can just flag your h/h and let them do the work while you surf the web. I've done it in many areas of factions and nightfall.

Really? Because not everyone can pay 8k for a conset only for a non-guaranteed vanquish. Plus cons only last an hour too, so that makes 16k for larger areas. Anyways, I highly doubt the same applies to much of the playerbase on clearing areas by just flagging.

Again, just because something is seemingly easy for one person, doesn't mean it isn't hard for another.

Cuilan · Jun 10, 2010, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

It would still have its uses for sins. There are many powerful sin attack skills with 8-12 second recharges that arnt used because of those recharges. I have an AP build for my sin like this.

Assassin's Promise needs a buff for assassin use if it's going to compare to other elite skills they have. The profession isn't much like it once was when Factions was out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

This. AP isn't the problem. PvE Skills are.

Removing PvE skills would remove my condition spread builds leaving mesmers with 2 useless elites.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaosincarnate87

AP isnt the problem, it wouldnt EVER be used if it wasn't for discord, so nerf discord.

That is news to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasmitchies

AP is fragile. Most high end monsters have hex removal so AP then needs a cover hex.

Nope.

Smith23 · Jun 10, 2010, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Why do certain people want to kill the fun for others? If you don't like AP then don't use it. If you don't like the Discord build then don't use it.

I'm honestly surprise people like the person who wrote this thread also don't try to get the 55 monk killed off.

T-Strudel · Jun 10, 2010, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasmitchies

AP is fragile. Most high end monsters have hex removal so AP then needs a cover hex. That means more energy.

Exactly, people who do use AP, how many times has it been stripped, then you are waiting for the 45sec recharge to try again, or (rarely happens but) have your target out healed the 13 sec duration.

My thoughts are AP is an excellent utility skill, if you are giving up your elite slot for it, and very easily removable from creatures. The problem is PvE skills. I have no clue why Vanguard Assassin Support wasn't done like the Asura Summons, where there can only be 1 out at a time, it never made sense to me.

Terrible Surgeon · Jun 10, 2010, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Assassins don't have any real use for Assassin's Promise in PvE. They have fast recharging attacks and energy management. The original poster I don't think has anything against necromancers MoP nuking.

Actually its real handy in pve for sins running elemental secondary with glyph of sacrifice for meteor shower. Can you say MS spam?

Make it a critical strikes skill and that should be enough.

zelgadissan · Jun 11, 2010, 12:00 AM // 00:00

PvE skills and splits need to die.

Since neither of those will be happening any time soon:

5e, 1/4c, 45r
Elite Hex Spell. For 5...13...15 seconds, if target foe dies, all your skills are recharged and you gain 1...3...3 Energy for each Assassin skill equipped.

Snow Bunny · Jun 11, 2010, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Which one of you people wanting this nerfed have ever had to H/H the majority of your PvE as a monk?

It sucks, and AP makes it bearable.

Cuilan · Jun 11, 2010, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smith23

Why do certain people want to kill the fun for others? If you don't like AP then don't use it. If you don't like the Discord build then don't use it.

That argument fails every time. Not sure why people still use it.

amber dawn · Jun 11, 2010, 12:26 AM // 00:26

I agree ap is overpowered, but it does make h/h alot easier, not everyone likes to pug or have guildies to hook up with.

maybe a better idea is for those that don't want ppl using ap is to post the builds they want everyone to run.
Make sure to say when, where, what time to play ect. so ppl can play gw the same way you do.
To some that seems the only way they will be happy.
could be some ppl posted their builds on pvx and didnt get the same rating as the ap/discord teams and maybe they are having problems with that.

Countess Marie · Jun 11, 2010, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

Nah, just remove all PvE skills from game.

If not, this sounds fine too.

Seriously, almost every problem with guild wars is rooted in consumables and pve skills.

As for AP, the part that bothers me is that it's more useful on non-sins. But what can you say? In concept for a sin it was a great idea. I believe, at the very least, 2ndary classes shouldn't be able to use elites.

I also don't understand why when people talk about a skill being overpowered, someone jumps in and acts like they will take away everything. First of all, pve is a joke. The only pve that is hard has other conditions (like environmental effects. Would enjoy seeing those gone...) Secondly, even though it's way too late in the GW universe... the 'power creep' or whatever is out of control.

Even without pve skills. UA is hax. Aura Lich is hax (esp when paired with masochism.)

AP is not really hax. I kind of look at it like soul reaping. It doesn't take a whole lot of skill to use it, for sure, but you still need to fulfill the pre-req (get a kill.) I would be happy to see a negative effect like with oath shot. So if someone strips it or if they don't die somehow, then you get disabled and lose energy.

Edit: OR MAYBE YOU, INSTEAD, WOULD DIE. Like the sin could pull out a dagger and stab himself in the chest for going back on a promise. That's what I'm talking about...

-CM

UnChosen · Jun 11, 2010, 12:37 AM // 00:37

As if eles are not weak enough already when it comes to stuff other than ER spamming.

One of the extremely common (and annoying) argument against fixing all of the underpowered class was the AP + 3 PvE skills combo.

Fixing underpowered damage eles? No need they can use AP + 3 PvE skills or AP + High recharge Fire Skills (the former is not ele and the latter is still crap).

Fix dervish? No need they can use AP + PvE skills with discord heroes.
etc. etc.

Sirius Bsns · Jun 11, 2010, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Nerf it all! Nerf... it... ALL! Leave no skill untouched, Anet. If that's what the players want? Why not give it to them!

Martin Alvito · Jun 11, 2010, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

Vanquishing is a joke with cons, you can just flag your h/h and let them do the work while you surf the web. I've done it in many areas of factions and nightfall.

What a good idea. Why didn't I think of that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smith23

Why do certain people want to kill the fun for others? If you don't like AP then don't use it. If you don't like the Discord build then don't use it.

Because some of us want to be able to signal our accomplishments with the title system. It's like asking why people hated IWAY. Good players weren't losing to IWAY, but IWAY watered down the Hero title badly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countess Marie

Seriously, almost every problem with guild wars is rooted in consumables and pve skills.

Mostly true on the PvE side. There are still some fairly absurd things you can do even without them.

Chthon · Jun 11, 2010, 01:55 AM // 01:55

I'm going to have to vote "no."

1. Yes, AP is strong. Very strong. You might even say "overpowered." But it's still not anywhere near the level of Ursan/SF kinda overpowered. At least, not unless you're very, very good with it. Which brings me to...

2. AP promotes skillful play, and I really don't want to nerf things that promote skillful play. Using AP well requires negotiating target selection, timing, coordinating with your team, and avoiding hex removal. Compare to Ursan.

2.5. Regarding the suggestion to nerf Discord. I'm of two minds about it. On the one hand, Discord is mindless, promotes bad play, and manages to drag AP builds down into mindlessness with it. On the other hand, it's really very mediocre, an I can't really honestly say that it deserves a nerf based on its power level.

Lishy · Jun 11, 2010, 02:03 AM // 02:03

A lot of people are forgetting that PvE isn't getting easier. You're just better at making builds after 5 years of experience!

That's my theory on it. Although as a PvE HM player, I'm not worried about if a skill is overpowered, but "How can I mitigate 500 AoE damage" and "How efficiently can I clear this vanquish?"

Lanier · Jun 11, 2010, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lishy

A lot of people are forgetting that PvE isn't getting easier. You're just better at making builds after 5 years of experience!

The thing about PvE is that the more balanced skills are, the tougher it is going to be. This is because while Players have the choice to pick whichever overpowered skills they want to use (plus the PvE only skills which have definitely made PvE easier), monsters have a skill set with an mix of all of the skills in the game regardless of power. They don't get to choose to use the more overpowered skills. What I am trying to say is that leaving overpowered skills unnerfed promotes powercreep and therefore does make the game easier. For the vast majority of HM players, PvE has just become so easy to breeze through. If we want powercreep to be at least partly reversed, the overpowered skills need to be nerfed. As much as I would love to see the PvE only skills completely removed, Anet is never going to do that. Therefore, I definitely think AP needs nerfing.

Oh, And I also think ER and Discord need slight tone downs as well. Not drastic nerfs but slight ones that prevent them from being abused in the ways they are currently being abused.

Sirius Bsns · Jun 11, 2010, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Question: Why is AP overpowered? Exactly how is AP game-breaking? Is it causing more ectos to be farmed at a faster rate? Is it enabling too many players to rake in too much gold to buy their nice little shiny armors, weapons, etc...? ...because it seems to me that there're alot of haters out there always crying on these forums, targeting any build that even remotely resembles success simply because they don't want to see anyone succeed at anything and buy FoW, expensive items, and what have you [just my opinion anyhow].

Cuilan · Jun 11, 2010, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

Question: Why is AP overpowered?

Hi. You can find many of those answers already by reading this thread.